Forum Activity for @peter-w

I had some days off and spent them on completing a project I have had in mind for several months. Sorry to say that again it is not related to MD, but to the five string kantele. Anyway - I know you all are open-minded. :)

Today I finished a free course / method for the five string kantele as an accompaniment instrument (that is: playing chords). This is the little kantele I designed. It appears from time to time in the book next to the exercises...

In addition, I have made a free songbook of Spirituals and Gospels . I have arranged all songs in D major (and four of them in D minor). Like the MD, the kantele is a diatonic instrument often tuned to D major nowadays. Maybe it is also useful for some Dulcimerplayers... :)

Now I know there are some kantele players around here. I'd be very happy and grateful to receive some feedback! As English is a foreign language to me, please let me know when you find typos or peculiar expressions or grammatical errors!

Here is the download source (directly from my own webspace):

http://www.finnischekantele.de/Be_different_Play_Kantele.pdf (ca. 3 MB)

http://www.finnischekantele.de/Spirituals_Kantele_Revised_2015.pdf (ca. 10 MB!)

Thanks for taking the time to look it over!

And now, the contrarian viewpoint. Traditionally, the nut and the bridge Were fixed and, on most stringed instruments still are; string gauge and height are always variables. But, to answer the original question: why measure from one end rather than the other? The answer is, like most things in life, convention (tradition and culture).

Why do we say the average man's voice is lower than the average woman's voice? Convention. Some cultures describe a man's voice as "higher" because most men are taller than most women.

This is just one of many "cans of worms" that may be opened when discussing the building of dulcimers!

Learn. Experiment. Have some fun! Sure, you'll make some mistakes along the way, but we all do.

You can make a simple dulcimer and have fun, or you can dig as deep into the technical aspects of design as you want.

There's room for all of it here.

It is all a bit of compromise anyway Brian. Measuring from the nut is the easiest option and fret calculators are usually multi-instrumental. There are a lot of instruments made where the freboard is fretted before it is attached to the instrument, such as guitars, so there is no actual bridge to measure from when the slots are cut and frets installed.

Even so, it still seems to me, that the most accurate way to set fret positions, would be from the bridge, as the length of the vibrating string determines the frequency of sound produced and whether a note played from a set fret position is in tune or not.

That's not the whole story Brian, you have missed out the string tension, which, as Ken says, gives rise to intonation difficulties. A thicker string or one tuned to a higher pitchor one set to a higher action (ie closer to the bridge) will pull sharper than a thinner string or one tuned to a lower pitch or one set to a nower action (ie further from the bridge). So, ideally, if youwere measuring froma straightbridge rather than the nutyou would need to compensate each fret. It is simpler to put in straight frets and compensate the bridge.

Even so, fretting is always going to be a compromise because it is done in equal temperamentbecause frets are sounded against each other when playing chords (every fret can become a new nut which is played against other new nuts - so each string then has a different scale length). If you were building for noter drone where just one string (or unison tuned melody pair) are fretted and played against the pure root and perfect 5th drones then you would be best off not using an equal temperament fret calculator and not measuring from the nut, or bridge for that matter, but centring your fret layout from the true 3rd fret root note position forthe melody string and the string gauge,pitch and action you will use - then you could workwith a more natural scale like quarter comma meantone, which would be more 'accurate' in this situation than equal temperament. Or, more simply, just set the frets by ear If you are going to play chords then you can't really set the frets by ear, you need an equal temperament pattern where every fret is just a little 'off' from the natural scale. Of course, according to an electronic tuner every equal temperament fret is 'true' because the tuners are also in equal temperament Natural notes themselves are not consistent, for examplethe 'B' note in the scale of A major is actually different than the 'B' note in the scale of G major by about 10 cents. A fiddle player (no frets) will naturally adjust the position of notes for each scale they play - a piano player or guitarist or dulcimer player cannot, so we use equal temperament.

Like I said - it is all a compromise!!!!!

I bet you wish you'd never asked now

Robin

Brian, Ken gave you good information, use it. All calculations are done from the nut, therefore fret position needs to be measured from the nut. Sometimes even when we use a fret calculator, the bridge placement will be given as a plus or minus measurement, therefore if you measure from the bridge your fret placement. Even if you measurement might from the bridge to your first fret may only be off by a few thousandth's of a inch, you could be off by several thousandth's by the time you place that last fret near the nut.

Compensation is to allow for stretch/tension between the frets and the bridge. Compensating at the nut would cause the distance from the frets to the bridge to be progressively off [sharper] as you fretted up the fretboard. Compensation is angling the bridge or relieving the bridge to effectively make the bass/middle string[s] longer.

The nut is a fixed position while the bridge is not. I know, the bridge is in a slot on my dulcimer's fret board so it must be a fixed position. The ideal placement of the bridge is "theoretical" in that other factors come in to play, e.g. the thickness of the strings, string height, etc. This is why some bridges are "compensated" or angled to insure proper intonation. So measure from the fixed position, not from the moveable.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ask the builders group

Alvin,

Check the other forum-- Dulcimer Making.

Haven't read the responses but the title sounds like it could be a song title "lost my pick in the soundhole"

I too use the tape on the end of a pencil. Just like Joe said, ". . . works like a charm."

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Psychology!

Funny remarks in the answers means everybody feel him/herself silly when it happens. Just like being angry with myself when cutting my fingers during cooking.

tape on the end of a pencil works like a charm. iv'e used it for years. once the evil forces realize they no longer irritate you the problem stops :)

It happens to the best of us. Just tell people it's a rattlesnake rattle given to you by a blind shaman when you played a rendition of Shady Grove that cured him of gout during the blizzard of '78. Hey, it's a better story than "I dropped my pick."

A knitting needle with some chewing gum?

(When the dulciner when moved makes a rattling sound: it's made by balls of hard chewing gum)

Playing the guitar it happened a lot to me, but not anymore. One is able to grow over it...

About loosing picks, in my case placing them on hidden spots in the house. I bought a 72 pieces bag, which makes them much more cheaper. I thought I had enough for the next two years. Wrong! I found them againover time, so the bag has a stable amout of 63 picksover theyears!

It's your question, you have to answer it. My ears have lost some of the high end hearing, so a double melody string makes the melody clearer for me. After 40 years playing 12 string guitars, my fingers don't shy away from doubled strings. But you need to please your ears and hands. I added a fifth string to one dulcimer so I could double the middle string. I tune it to D Aa Dd, most of the time. I play the melody on the middle strings when I need a 155 tuning, and on the melody strings when I need a 158 tuning. But sometimes I use other tunings. My answer cannot possibly please everyone, but it pleases me. You need an answer that gives the dulcimer do what you need it to give you, not us.

Neither is "better". It's like so many things in this wonderful mountain dulcimer world, It's personal preference that rules.

Define "better", please.

Brian Beach said:

I'll try this again:

Which is better:

A: 3 string dulcimer

B: 4 string dulcimer

Pick only one answer.

I broke a string on my 4 string folkcraft dulcimer, so now i'm playing with 3. I like both ways, but it is easier to play it with the 3 strings based on the way I play. Once I get around to putting on my new strings I'll install the 4th (can't leave one lonely string in my package).

I do three on all mine as well, as I end up using the melody string as drone as often as for melody. I've even gone so far as to remove the additional tuning machine on the dulcimers that are set up for four -- the hole makes a great place to tie in a strap for the instrument!

I did four strings for many years, and can see why someone would want to go that way too. As everyone is saying, it simply comes down to playing style and preference.

I only use 3 stringson most of my dulcimers,and if I therefore have an unused tuner,it makes a handy spot to attach my Snark!

Depends on definition of 'better', '3 string' and '4 string'. Plus, what's 'better' for me probably won't be 'better' for someone else or a different situation.

I have both 3 string, single melody string and 4 equidistant for both strumming and fingerpicking. I have 0 of 7 set up with double melody strings. I doubt I'll ever have a 5-6 string MD as I don't really care for the sound of double strings.

This is a doozie Brian I play noter / drone style, but prefer a single melody string. 2 of my dulcimers are in fact 3 string. A recent acquisition is a 4 string, but equidistant with a single melody string. But that's just my own preference.

I'd go with 4 just because with multiple notches on the bridge and nut you can have paired melody strings, paired middle strings, 4 equidistant or leave off one and have 3 equidistant. That being said, I like 4 string equidistant probably because that's what my 1st one was (is; I still have it.) Yes, as many have said, it is a matter of taste and what you get used to in playing.

I'd say a 4 string dulcimer that has the option on the nut and bridge to be strung as a double melody string and two drones or to string as a 4 equidistant string set up.

Now having said that, I remove or drop one of the double melody strings and play only 1 melody string in my finger dancing style, or lift one melody string over and set up as a 4 equidistant configuration and still play one melody string/finger dancing.

But neither a 3 string or 4 string set up is better across the board, they are simply better options for different playing styles.

Currently I am using 3 string because it is easier to do hammer ons and pull offs with a single melody string. This is for chord/melody style playing. For my noter/drone playing I use 4 strings most of the time. So I can't choose A or B; I need to choose both A and B.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I think the answers above are all correct, Brian. You're asking a question about two different experiences. That is like asking if a car ride or motorcycle ride is better through the mountains. They are much different ways to enjoy the mountains. If I am taking your in-laws, then I take the car. But these days I'd rather just ride.

Big smiles to you.

The correct answer is: YES

Brian, it depends. I took off the extra melody string on my Cabin Creek because I was splitting the strings. It is easier to chord for me with just the three strings. My Prichard only has three strings. That's the way they made them way back when. With the piano strings Kevin put on it I do not lack volume at all. I just recently acquired a used McSpadden and have left the double melody strings on it. They are a bit closer together than the double melody strings on the Cabin Creek. I don't seem to have trouble splitting the strings on this. It's also has slots to do equi-distant but I'm not ready to venture into the dark side yet, LOL. I have taken a couple of beginner workshops and the instructor recommends taking off the extra melody string. Hey, try it both ways and see what suits you.

Some interesting stories y'all. Thanks for sharing them. It is really neat to see how people respond to the mtn. dulcimer and it's wonderful to see so many who do "know the dulcimer".

I just wish all of us could go at the same time--what a great jam that would be! How fortunate it is, Mandy that you now live so close.

I can't exactly answer this question, Mandy, since I don't do public concerts. I do remember, however, that at Stephen Seifert's premier with the Tucson Symphony (where he had an 18 min. solo)in Feb. 2012, he gave a little information about the instrument, which was new to most of the season ticket holders in attendance. He then asked for a show of hands in the audience for whoPLAYED this instrument and there was a collective gasp from the season ticket holders as hands went up ALL OVER! This Feb. concert had sold out back in August, as dulcimer players from all over the country tried to get a ticket if they could work out a way to get to Tucson. The afterglow and jam up north of Tucson that night was so much fun! I always love getting together and sharing music with people from different locales. I hope we can get together sometime!

I find a mix of people...some know what it is and some are like what the heck is that! But once you play everyone loves it. It just has that affect on people. I still remember the first time I ever heard one, don't think I'll ever forget. had to have one then and to play not to hang it on a wall. Been in love with it ever since. Hey It's good to hear from you again girl, it's been a long time. Dana

My husband and I played a morning concert at the John C. Campbell Folk School this morning and had a great time. Cool thing happened though. I have been really wanting to play the dulcimer for folks, so I practiced up a couple tunes and brought it this time. I asked everyone (around 50 people) if they knew what it was as I held it up in the air. Most shook their heads yes and someone even said "it's a dulcimer". AWESOME! Then I gave a short little history of the instrument and played for them.

In most of my interactions with different people I really don't have a bunch who know what it is or even what it's called. It was just a breath of fresh air to be in such a concentration of folks who were familiar with it.

So to start a discussion about this - how do you find you are received when you bring out your dulcimer? Do they know what it is?

I went to a festival this past weekend and had strap buttons installed on both of my dulcimers. What a difference the strap makes! I always felt like the dulcimer was going to fall off of my lap, even using rubber fabric in my lap and a footstool for my feet. Now, I can just focus on the playing without subconsciously worrying about the darn thing falling off of my lap.

I'm glad that I paid someone else to install the buttons--I'm not a very precise or handy person.

I recently got a new strap and after using it for a few weeks one end of the strap kept slipping off the button, I went on line and found an easy solution. Get 2 rubber washers with 5/16 inner diameter put it on the end of the button over the strap and it works great. Only cost 60 cents each. Thought it might help someone else. Carolyn

Fortunately, my Folkcraft dulcimer came with strap buttons installed...I've installed them on a guitar once, and I might on an old Hughes dulcimer. I'm a former Jersey boy and Dusty, just so's you know, I lived close to the Meadowlands, and as everybody around there knows, it's just a peaceful bird sanctuary...you know what I mean?